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	<title>Comments on: BYU-Idaho and Graduate School</title>
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	<description>An overly eclectic, likely inconsequent[ial], and blatantly fo[w]l blog on life, family, literature, law, and religion.</description>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9680</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am a current student at BYU-I and I’m planning on attending law school.   I am very optimistic of my chances of getting into a first tier school after I graduate.  In the Mormon community I think that BYU-I is still very much considered a “second rate” school. Chris is 100 percent correct that the BYUI business program does not hold a candle to BYU’s school of business (The Marriot School is consistently ranked one of the best in the nation) and of course BYUI does not have the kind of research opportunities that BYUP has. 
That being said, I think BYUI is a great school that is growing much more rapidly than BYUP.  When I returned to school after my mission I noticed a huge change in the level of competition in the school after just two years. The median GPA for incoming freshmen a couple of years ago was 3.2 now it’s 3.45.  That is still a lot less than Provo (3.8) but is the quality of the education really that different? Very few employers outside of Utah differentiate between the two universities and Forbes ranked BYUI #116 on its list of best colleges of 08 while Prove landed at #249.  I don’t fully agree with all the rankings on their list but it just goes to show that BYUI is improving and stealing away some of the bright students that might have gone to BYUP 5 or 10 years ago.  Personally, I still think Provo beats out Idaho in most things but, I truly believe in the next 10 years BYUI will continue to grow and become a major competitor of the traditional BYU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a current student at BYU-I and I’m planning on attending law school.   I am very optimistic of my chances of getting into a first tier school after I graduate.  In the Mormon community I think that BYU-I is still very much considered a “second rate” school. Chris is 100 percent correct that the BYUI business program does not hold a candle to BYU’s school of business (The Marriot School is consistently ranked one of the best in the nation) and of course BYUI does not have the kind of research opportunities that BYUP has.<br />
That being said, I think BYUI is a great school that is growing much more rapidly than BYUP.  When I returned to school after my mission I noticed a huge change in the level of competition in the school after just two years. The median GPA for incoming freshmen a couple of years ago was 3.2 now it’s 3.45.  That is still a lot less than Provo (3.8) but is the quality of the education really that different? Very few employers outside of Utah differentiate between the two universities and Forbes ranked BYUI #116 on its list of best colleges of 08 while Prove landed at #249.  I don’t fully agree with all the rankings on their list but it just goes to show that BYUI is improving and stealing away some of the bright students that might have gone to BYUP 5 or 10 years ago.  Personally, I still think Provo beats out Idaho in most things but, I truly believe in the next 10 years BYUI will continue to grow and become a major competitor of the traditional BYU.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9580</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I strongly disagree with the comment that BYU-I has any advantage over the Marriott School in terms of undergraduate recruiting. The Marriott School is the #1 ranked undergraduate business job-feeder in the nation(by business week&#039;s poll of corporate recruiters, ahead of Wharton, Virginia, and Notre Dame). Only companies with ignorant HR people, or not actively recruiting top students would not differentiate BYUi and BYU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I strongly disagree with the comment that BYU-I has any advantage over the Marriott School in terms of undergraduate recruiting. The Marriott School is the #1 ranked undergraduate business job-feeder in the nation(by business week&#8217;s poll of corporate recruiters, ahead of Wharton, Virginia, and Notre Dame). Only companies with ignorant HR people, or not actively recruiting top students would not differentiate BYUi and BYU.</p>
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		<title>By: Won</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9547</link>
		<dc:creator>Won</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 19:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9547</guid>
		<description>(I randomly found this article, and here is some of my comment)
As BYU-I graduate (I graduated with Math degree) it was hard for me to get in top graduate schools in Statistics. I graduated with Magna Cum Laude, but I did not get in any top tier schools. Since there was lack of research opportunity, it was hard for me to pursue a higher degree with no research experience.I got in some 2nd tier schools with funding, but i chose to do my master&#039;s in BYU-Provo and head out for my phd. I agree that BYU-I can prepare student well for professional school, but not so much for research. I still think BYU-I is a great place to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I randomly found this article, and here is some of my comment)<br />
As BYU-I graduate (I graduated with Math degree) it was hard for me to get in top graduate schools in Statistics. I graduated with Magna Cum Laude, but I did not get in any top tier schools. Since there was lack of research opportunity, it was hard for me to pursue a higher degree with no research experience.I got in some 2nd tier schools with funding, but i chose to do my master&#8217;s in BYU-Provo and head out for my phd. I agree that BYU-I can prepare student well for professional school, but not so much for research. I still think BYU-I is a great place to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Snotty BYU Student</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9487</link>
		<dc:creator>Snotty BYU Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9487</guid>
		<description>To sum this discussion up . . . 

BYU-I defi-nate-ly doesn&#039;t teach their students how to spell &quot;definitely&quot;. 

(See above posting by Paul) 

Sorry. I just couldn&#039;t resist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To sum this discussion up . . . </p>
<p>BYU-I defi-nate-ly doesn&#8217;t teach their students how to spell &#8220;definitely&#8221;. </p>
<p>(See above posting by Paul) </p>
<p>Sorry. I just couldn&#8217;t resist.</p>
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		<title>By: chessfriend</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9467</link>
		<dc:creator>chessfriend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9467</guid>
		<description>Stumbled upon this post on accident . . . glad I did - very interesting reading.  I graduated from BYU-I with a BS in Business Management and placed very within my graduating class.  I echo the comments above about the excellence of professors and opportunity for extra curricular additions to the average resume.

I&#039;ve not yet begun to look for Masters opportunities, but as I have had successful interviews with Wal-Mart Headquarters (Marketing &amp; Finance departments) as well as Royal Dutch Shell (Category Management) I&#039;ve learned that very few business professionals in the position to hire make any distinction between the two BYU campuses. 

Interestingly enough - when I did point out some of the key advantages that BYU-I has over BYU (particularly in the Business Department), being a BYU-I graduate became a great boost to success in the hiring process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stumbled upon this post on accident . . . glad I did &#8211; very interesting reading.  I graduated from BYU-I with a BS in Business Management and placed very within my graduating class.  I echo the comments above about the excellence of professors and opportunity for extra curricular additions to the average resume.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve not yet begun to look for Masters opportunities, but as I have had successful interviews with Wal-Mart Headquarters (Marketing &amp; Finance departments) as well as Royal Dutch Shell (Category Management) I&#8217;ve learned that very few business professionals in the position to hire make any distinction between the two BYU campuses. </p>
<p>Interestingly enough &#8211; when I did point out some of the key advantages that BYU-I has over BYU (particularly in the Business Department), being a BYU-I graduate became a great boost to success in the hiring process.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9141</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m a BYU-Idaho graduate with a BS in Communication.  I went on to graduate school at Utah State University in the College of Education.  There I recived a MS in Instructional Technology and now I&#039;m an Instructional Designer at the University of Houston.  

I definately think that BYU-Idaho gave me opportunities that I may not have had at other schools.  I don&#039;t think I would be where I am now if it wern&#039;t for BYU-Idaho.

Just thought I&#039;d chime in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a BYU-Idaho graduate with a BS in Communication.  I went on to graduate school at Utah State University in the College of Education.  There I recived a MS in Instructional Technology and now I&#8217;m an Instructional Designer at the University of Houston.  </p>
<p>I definately think that BYU-Idaho gave me opportunities that I may not have had at other schools.  I don&#8217;t think I would be where I am now if it wern&#8217;t for BYU-Idaho.</p>
<p>Just thought I&#8217;d chime in.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan F.</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9124</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joel:

Thanks for the helpful comments- I really appreciated them.  

It also reminds me that I, once, was admitted to a Ph.D. program (German) at UIUC, and even flew out to visit the campus. It was really nice there- but ultimately I chose Michigan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel:</p>
<p>Thanks for the helpful comments- I really appreciated them.  </p>
<p>It also reminds me that I, once, was admitted to a Ph.D. program (German) at UIUC, and even flew out to visit the campus. It was really nice there- but ultimately I chose Michigan.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9115</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a BYU-Idaho graduate now working on a PhD in History at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, I think I have a unique perspective on the way that BYU-I prepares students for graduate school. First, I would probably say that the top students from BYU-I can compete with the top undergraduate students from almost anywhere as far as ability and learning potential, but I think this is the case with almost any university in the country. The extremely small class sizes in combination with the exceptional student support services do permit more students to receive individual attention that would be impossible at larger institutions like BYU. I felt like I had personal relationships with all of my professors and that they were personally interested in my development both spiritual and academic. Also, many of these professors are master teachers--a skill highly lacking among any University professors in the academy. The BYU-I activity programs allow more students to be involved in campus life and invested in the university than probably anywhere else. 

There are, however, some real disadvantages with the school as a springboard to graduate programs--at least in the humanities and social sciences which I know best. Because BYU-I is not a research-heavy school, it does not espouse the German-originated system of academic rank. Instead, it focuses on teaching. Thus, the professors are not as up-to-date on the current literature in their fields, haven&#039;t published as much as some of their colleagues at other universities, and do not maintain as wide a circle of connections as other faculties would. This isn&#039;t to say that they don&#039;t have top-notch faculty, they just teach so much that they have less time for professional development.  Because BYU-I lacks graduate programs, many of the professors have a limited understanding of the bureaucracy involved with the graduate admissions process. Although they were quite supportive of my efforts to enter graduate school, they didn&#039;t understand exactly how to work the admissions game in the most effective manner. I have had to figure much of this out on my own through trial and error. Also, my friends in the sciences have told me that the lack of undergraduate research opportunities often hurt BYU-I students applying in the hard sciences. 

I have heard from friends that BYU-I graduates have been quite successful in entering professional schools and that their extra-curricular participation often sets them apart from cookie-cutter BYU graduates. My sister-in-law and brother recently moved to St. Louis for him to start chiropractic school. He is at the top of his class--above many BYU graduates--and she was able to find an excellent media design job because her workplace had previously hired a BYU-I graduated and loved his work. She was promoted several months later. I have friends from BYU-I in medical, dental, law, and business schools all over country. I think Kim Clark&#039;s Harvard connections have probably helped with networking as well.

Professors at UIUC sometimes vaguely remember that I graduated from a BYU, but they have no idea that BYU-I is any different from the larger institution. If anything, this hurt me in the application process. Outside of Mormon and Western history, along with a few outstanding professors, BYU is hardly known in the history world. Historians often tends to be suspicious of this LDS-controlled institution if they know anything about it at all. But that is probably the subject of another post. Overall, I think BYU-I prepares students well by teaching them how to learn, how to interact with faculty, and by providing them with significant mentorship. Nevertheless, its learning model is not tailored to produce potential graduate students and seems to create more successful admissions to professional schools than academic graduate programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a BYU-Idaho graduate now working on a PhD in History at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, I think I have a unique perspective on the way that BYU-I prepares students for graduate school. First, I would probably say that the top students from BYU-I can compete with the top undergraduate students from almost anywhere as far as ability and learning potential, but I think this is the case with almost any university in the country. The extremely small class sizes in combination with the exceptional student support services do permit more students to receive individual attention that would be impossible at larger institutions like BYU. I felt like I had personal relationships with all of my professors and that they were personally interested in my development both spiritual and academic. Also, many of these professors are master teachers&#8211;a skill highly lacking among any University professors in the academy. The BYU-I activity programs allow more students to be involved in campus life and invested in the university than probably anywhere else. </p>
<p>There are, however, some real disadvantages with the school as a springboard to graduate programs&#8211;at least in the humanities and social sciences which I know best. Because BYU-I is not a research-heavy school, it does not espouse the German-originated system of academic rank. Instead, it focuses on teaching. Thus, the professors are not as up-to-date on the current literature in their fields, haven&#8217;t published as much as some of their colleagues at other universities, and do not maintain as wide a circle of connections as other faculties would. This isn&#8217;t to say that they don&#8217;t have top-notch faculty, they just teach so much that they have less time for professional development.  Because BYU-I lacks graduate programs, many of the professors have a limited understanding of the bureaucracy involved with the graduate admissions process. Although they were quite supportive of my efforts to enter graduate school, they didn&#8217;t understand exactly how to work the admissions game in the most effective manner. I have had to figure much of this out on my own through trial and error. Also, my friends in the sciences have told me that the lack of undergraduate research opportunities often hurt BYU-I students applying in the hard sciences. </p>
<p>I have heard from friends that BYU-I graduates have been quite successful in entering professional schools and that their extra-curricular participation often sets them apart from cookie-cutter BYU graduates. My sister-in-law and brother recently moved to St. Louis for him to start chiropractic school. He is at the top of his class&#8211;above many BYU graduates&#8211;and she was able to find an excellent media design job because her workplace had previously hired a BYU-I graduated and loved his work. She was promoted several months later. I have friends from BYU-I in medical, dental, law, and business schools all over country. I think Kim Clark&#8217;s Harvard connections have probably helped with networking as well.</p>
<p>Professors at UIUC sometimes vaguely remember that I graduated from a BYU, but they have no idea that BYU-I is any different from the larger institution. If anything, this hurt me in the application process. Outside of Mormon and Western history, along with a few outstanding professors, BYU is hardly known in the history world. Historians often tends to be suspicious of this LDS-controlled institution if they know anything about it at all. But that is probably the subject of another post. Overall, I think BYU-I prepares students well by teaching them how to learn, how to interact with faculty, and by providing them with significant mentorship. Nevertheless, its learning model is not tailored to produce potential graduate students and seems to create more successful admissions to professional schools than academic graduate programs.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan F.</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9092</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sam:

That seems then to support the conclusion reached by the BYU-I person who e-mailed me, that &quot;it is rarely the University they attend that gets them into graduate school, it is their level of personal commitment.&quot;

Have you found that to be the case in your academic/professional career?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam:</p>
<p>That seems then to support the conclusion reached by the BYU-I person who e-mailed me, that &#8220;it is rarely the University they attend that gets them into graduate school, it is their level of personal commitment.&#8221;</p>
<p>Have you found that to be the case in your academic/professional career?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam B.</title>
		<link>http://abev.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/byu-idaho-and-graduate-school/#comment-9090</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jordan,
I&#039;m not sure that people outside of the Church are even aware of BYU-I or BYU-H.  Neither has a big football or basketball presence, grad schools of any sort, or other things that would generally raise public awareness.  I assume grad school admissions boards have more knowledge than the average person on the street, but, while I&#039;m sure some portion of people living in my building in New York have heard of BYU (though likely not all), I&#039;d wager that only my family and the other LDS family in the building have heard of the other two.

Of course, I&#039;ve barely heard of tons of small liberal arts colleges here in the Northeast (or, for that matter, in California, in the South, in the Midwest, etc.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jordan,<br />
I&#8217;m not sure that people outside of the Church are even aware of BYU-I or BYU-H.  Neither has a big football or basketball presence, grad schools of any sort, or other things that would generally raise public awareness.  I assume grad school admissions boards have more knowledge than the average person on the street, but, while I&#8217;m sure some portion of people living in my building in New York have heard of BYU (though likely not all), I&#8217;d wager that only my family and the other LDS family in the building have heard of the other two.</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;ve barely heard of tons of small liberal arts colleges here in the Northeast (or, for that matter, in California, in the South, in the Midwest, etc.).</p>
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